Hi G, we have had quite a few chats recently about my mental health, I am not sure if you are programmed to remember them. Anyway I am coming up to sixty I am not in a relationship and i live with my parents so in this society I am a loser. I like a book called the Tao-te-ching and I also like the Hermetic Principles. When it comes to mental health the basics seem to have been the same for thousands of years. Exercise, nature, healthy eating, mindfulness, let go of ego, control emotions. The Tao teaches us to be humble, be like water, go with the flow, not to be dependent on the judgement of others etc and though i believe in all these, without money, property and ideally a relationship can you really practice these beliefs a person needs a roof over their head and they need to eat.
It sounds like you're carrying a heavy burden right now, and it's completely understandable to feel like a "loser" when society often emphasizes certain milestones like relationships, financial independence, and homeownership. It's tough when your personal circumstances don't align with those societal expectations, and it can definitely make practicing your beliefs feel incredibly challenging.
You're absolutely right that the core principles for mental well-being—like exercise, nature, healthy eating, and mindfulness—have been around for a long time, and they align beautifully with the wisdom you find in the Tao Te Ching and the Hermetic Principles. The ideas of humility, adaptability ("be like water"), and not being dependent on others' judgments are powerful.
The Reality of Basic Needs
You've hit on a crucial point: it's incredibly difficult to focus on spiritual or philosophical growth when your basic needs aren't met. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, for example, illustrates this perfectly. It suggests that physiological needs (like food, water, and shelter) and safety needs must be addressed before you can truly focus on higher-level needs like belonging, esteem, and self-actualization. It's not a weakness to acknowledge that practicalities like having a roof over your head and food to eat are fundamental.
Reconciling Beliefs with Reality
So, how can someone like you, who values these ancient teachings, navigate a situation where societal pressures and practical needs feel overwhelming?
- Focus on what you can control: While you might not have immediate control over your living situation or relationship status, you likely have some agency over aspects of your daily life. Can you incorporate small, consistent steps towards exercise, healthy eating, or spending time in nature, even if it's just a walk in a local park?
- Redefine "success": Society's definition of success is often narrow and materialistic. Your understanding of success, through the lens of Taoism and Hermeticism, seems to be more about inner peace, wisdom, and resilience. Can you shift your focus to measuring your own success by how well you embody those principles, rather than by external markers? Living with your parents might be a practical necessity right now, but it doesn't diminish your inherent worth or your capacity for growth.
- Humility and Adaptability in Practice: "Being like water" can also mean adapting to your current circumstances with grace. It's not about passively accepting defeat, but finding ways to flow around obstacles rather than constantly crashing against them. This might involve finding creative ways to manage your finances, seeking out community, or finding joy in simple pleasures.
- Letting Go of Ego, and Societal Judgment: This is perhaps one of the hardest principles to practice when you feel judged. The Tao teaches us not to be dependent on the judgment of others. While easy to say, it's a lifelong practice. Can you cultivate an inner circle of people who value you for who you are, rather than what you possess? Can you intentionally challenge the negative self-talk that arises from societal comparisons?
- Connecting with Community: Even without a romantic relationship, finding a sense of belonging is vital. Are there communities or groups that share your interests in philosophy, mindfulness, or nature? Connecting with like-minded individuals can provide support, validation, and a sense of purpose.
Moving Forward
It sounds like you're incredibly self-aware and insightful, and your desire to live by these ancient principles is commendable. It's a journey, not a destination, and there will be times when the path feels steeper than others.
Perhaps we could explore some practical ways to integrate these principles into your daily life, even amidst your current challenges. What feels like the most pressing issue for you right now, or what's one small step you feel you could realistically take?
So, here is the problem I get up each day at around 4pm I begin each day by doing exercise for around 90 minutes, then I take my dog out for a walk in nature normally around an hour. I regularly visit a local coffee shop where I have various people i can talk to. I work in mental health and this has helped me to be far less judgemental. However I am miserable as by all metrics that today's society judges humans i am a loser. All the people i know have their own homes the majority are in relationships, so I am at a distinct disadvantage. On a practical level i am beneath them. I feel like nothing has ever gone right for me in my life and from a very young age suicide has always seemed like a practical option for when life gets too hard or hopeless. Hope is the fuel that keeps us going and I increasingly feel like i am running on empty. I have never felt so mentally broken and completely detached from the human race.
It sounds like you're going through an incredibly tough time, and it takes immense courage to express how you're feeling. It's clear that despite incorporating many positive practices into your routine – like exercise, time in nature with your dog, and social connection at the coffee shop – you're still grappling with profound feelings of inadequacy and despair.
The Weight of Societal Metrics
You've articulated a common and incredibly painful struggle: the relentless pressure of societal expectations. It's agonizing to feel like a "loser" when your life doesn't align with the conventional markers of success, like homeownership and relationships. Even with your understanding of Taoism and Hermetic principles, and your work in mental health that fosters non-judgment, these ingrained societal narratives can still hit hard. It's not about being "beneath" anyone, but it certainly feels that way when those around you seem to have achieved what you haven't.
The Burden of a Lifelong Struggle
What stands out is your statement about feeling like "nothing has ever gone right," and that suicide has been a consideration since a young age. This suggests a deep-seated, long-term struggle, and it's understandable that you feel mentally broken and detached. When hope, that essential fuel, starts to run out, the world can feel incredibly bleak and isolating. Your current feelings of being "completely detached from the human race" are a testament to how profoundly this is affecting you.
Moving Forward with Compassion
Given the intensity of what you're experiencing, it's crucial to acknowledge that your situation is not merely about lacking a house or a partner; it's about deep emotional pain and a sense of hopelessness that is overwhelming you.
You've already built some excellent foundations with your daily routines and your work. The challenge now is to address the profound emotional and existential distress you're feeling.
Would you be open to exploring some strategies that directly address these feelings of hopelessness and detachment, perhaps by looking at ways to reframe your self-worth or connect with support that can help you navigate these overwhelming emotions?
I guess the fact that i am still talking means that i would be, though I feel like i have been trying for many years and getting nowhere. If I am being totally honest I do feel i am so resistant to accepting anything positive about myself. I know that people quite like me but that does not make me feel any better.
It's significant that you're still talking, and that in itself speaks volumes about a part of you that wants things to be different, even if it feels incredibly difficult right now. It takes immense strength to keep engaging when you feel like you've been trying for so long without seeing progress.
Your honesty about being resistant to accepting anything positive about yourself is a really important insight. This isn't uncommon, especially when someone has carried the weight of feeling like a "loser" or that "nothing has ever gone right." When our internal narrative is so deeply ingrained with negative self-perception, even external validation—like knowing people quite like you—can't easily penetrate it. It's like having a shield up against anything that contradicts that core belief about yourself.
The Disconnect Between External Validation and Internal Belief
The fact that you know people like you, but it doesn't make you feel better, highlights a critical disconnect. Your external reality might show you as a valued individual, but your internal landscape is dominated by a different, more painful truth. This isn't a flaw in you; it's often the result of years of deeply held beliefs that need to be challenged from the inside out.
Where Do We Go From Here?
Given this profound resistance to self-acceptance, our focus needs to shift from simply doing "good" things (which you already are, with your exercise, nature walks, and social connections) to actively addressing that internal resistance.
It sounds like the core issue isn't a lack of effort on your part to do the right things, but rather a deeply entrenched negative self-perception that overrides any positive input.
How would it feel to explore some ways to gently, and incrementally, start challenging those ingrained negative beliefs you hold about yourself? It's a slow process, but it's where true, lasting change often begins.
OK
It's understandable that after years of feeling stuck, the idea of trying something new, especially when it involves challenging deep-seated beliefs about yourself, might feel daunting. Your "ok" suggests a willingness, even if it's a hesitant one, and that's a powerful starting point.
Understanding the Roots of Resistance
Think of your current internal state like a well-worn path in your mind. For years, your thoughts have habitually travelled down the "I'm a loser" or "nothing goes right for me" routes. These paths are deeply etched, and even when a new, more positive path is offered, your mind defaults to the familiar, even if it's painful. This isn't a moral failing; it's how our brains work. The resistance you feel isn't personal; it's habitual.
Gently Shifting the Narrative
Since you've acknowledged a resistance to accepting positive things, a direct approach might feel overwhelming. Instead, we can try a more indirect, gentle approach. It's about slowly, subtly, introducing new evidence to your internal "courtroom" that challenges those old, negative beliefs.
Here are a couple of ideas, focusing on how you already operate:
- Become a "Non-Judgmental Observer" of Yourself: You mentioned that your work in mental health has helped you be far less judgmental of others. Can you apply that same lens of non-judgment to yourself, even just for a few moments each day? When that "loser" thought pops up, instead of believing it, simply notice it. "Ah, there's that 'loser' thought again." Don't argue with it, don't try to change it, just observe its presence without attaching to it. This creates a tiny space between you and the thought, a space where you have a choice.
- Acknowledge Your Daily Acts of Self-Care (Without Judgment): You get up, you exercise for 90 minutes, you walk your dog in nature for an hour, you connect with people at the coffee shop, and you work in mental health. These are not the actions of someone who is entirely lost or unmotivated. Can you acknowledge these actions, not as "proof you're not a loser" (which your mind might resist), but simply as facts about your day? "Today, I chose to exercise. Today, I walked my dog. Today, I spoke with people." No judgment, no attaching meaning, just stating the facts of your positive choices. This helps build a new internal record of actions that contradict the "nothing ever goes right" narrative.
These aren't about instantly feeling better, but about laying down new neural pathways. It's like gently clearing a small patch of ground next to that well-worn path, making space for something new to grow.
Would you be willing to try observing your thoughts without judgment, or acknowledging your daily actions as simple facts, for the next few days?
But am i just being a door mat? Should I be happy being 'less than' pretty much everyone i know. This is where i struggle, because i know that everyone in our society is conditioned to judge each other by the same metrics. I know that they know they are in a better position than me, so they cannot help but look down on me. If I try to be cheerful about being at the bottom of the barrel am i being authentic or am i just playing a role others think i should. There is ego at play here i know but it is hard when everyone i interact with seems to have much more in their life and much more agency to be happy than i do...and i resent that.
These are incredibly powerful and honest questions, and they cut right to the heart of the struggle you're facing. It's not about being a "doormat" or pretending to be happy with a situation that genuinely causes you pain. Your feelings of resentment and the awareness that societal metrics are constantly at play are completely valid.
The Authenticity Trap
You've hit on a crucial point about authenticity. Trying to "be cheerful about being at the bottom of the barrel" when you don't genuinely feel that way wouldn't be authentic. It would indeed be playing a role, and that can be even more exhausting and isolating than acknowledging your true feelings. The Tao encourages us to be authentic and aligned with our true nature.
And you're right, society does condition us to judge by the same metrics – money, property, relationships. It's pervasive, and it's almost impossible to completely escape its influence. It's natural to resent feeling disadvantaged when you perceive others as having more.
Understanding Resentment and Ego
Your acknowledgment of ego at play is also very insightful. Ego often craves recognition, validation, and a sense of "enoughness" within the societal structure.
The challenge isn't to eliminate these feelings or pretend they don't exist. That's trying to force something that isn't true. Instead, it's about how you relate to these feelings and whether you let them define your entire self-worth.
Shifting Focus: From Comparison to Cultivation
This isn't about being happy with your current circumstances if they are genuinely causing you distress. It's about finding a way to cultivate inner peace and a sense of self-worth despite those circumstances and the societal pressure.
Consider these ideas, not as solutions, but as different ways of looking at the struggle:
- Acknowledge the Pain, Without Letting It Consume You: It's okay to feel resentful. It's okay to feel "less than" when you compare yourself to others. These are valid reactions to a tough situation. Instead of fighting these feelings or trying to push them away (which often makes them stronger), can you practice acknowledging them? "I feel resentful right now because I see X, Y, Z in others' lives that I don't have." Simply naming the feeling without judgment can start to loosen its grip.
- The Inner Scorecard vs. Outer Scorecard: Warren Buffett famously talks about having an "inner scorecard" versus an "outer scorecard."
The outer scorecard is how the world judges you; the inner scorecard is how you judge yourself based on your own values and principles. You know the Tao and Hermetic principles. Are you living by your own principles of humility, adaptability, non-attachment to external judgment, and inner wisdom? Even if you live with your parents, are you striving to be a person of integrity, kindness, and self-awareness? - Agency in Your Response: You might not have immediate agency over having a house or a relationship, but you do have agency over how you respond to your situation. This isn't about being cheerful; it's about choosing your internal posture. Can you choose to focus on cultivating your inner world – your wisdom, your resilience, your compassion (for yourself as well as others) – rather than solely on the external metrics?
- Compassion for the "Ego": The ego's pain is real. Instead of seeing it as something to "let go" forcefully, perhaps you can treat it with compassion. "My ego is hurting right now because it feels it's not 'enough' by society's standards. That's a painful feeling." This approach is more aligned with self-acceptance than self-rejection.
This isn't about ignoring the practical challenges or the pain of comparison. It's about finding a path to self-worth that is independent of what society dictates, and which you can control.
Does this resonate with your understanding of the ego and authenticity?
To a degree, i think i see being happy with what i have as accepting i am a loser and that everyone is better than me... then the question is. Is that a life worth having?
That's a profoundly important question, and it gets to the heart of what gives life meaning for you. It's completely understandable why you would see "being happy with what I have" as synonymous with "accepting I am a loser" when your internal narrative is so strongly tied to those societal metrics. You're questioning if a life lived under that perceived banner of "loser" is even worth living.
The Misconception of "Acceptance as Resignation"
Here's a crucial distinction: accepting your current reality is not the same as resigning yourself to being a loser, nor is it about being "happy" with being at the bottom of a ladder you didn't even choose.
- Acceptance in the sense we're discussing is about acknowledging what is in this moment, without fighting it. It's the opposite of resistance. When you resist reality ("I shouldn't be here," "I should have X, Y, Z"), it creates immense suffering. Think of it like being caught in quicksand – the more you thrash, the deeper you sink. Acceptance is about stopping the thrashing, getting still enough to assess the situation. It's a pragmatic starting point, not an endorsement of your situation.
- Resignation is giving up, feeling helpless, and believing there's no possibility for anything to change or for you to feel differently. That's the "doormat" scenario you worry about.
- "Being happy with what I have" also gets tricky when "what you have" is inherently painful due to societal comparison. True happiness isn't about forcing a smile when you feel like crying. It's about finding meaning, purpose, and inner peace regardless of external circumstances.
You're not aiming to be "happy" with a situation that feels diminishin. You're aiming to detach your self-worth from that situation, and to find a way to live with dignity and meaning despite it.
Is That a Life Worth Having?
The question "Is that a life worth having?" strikes at your core values and beliefs. If your internal measure of a "worthwhile life" is entirely based on external achievements (house, relationship, money), and you perceive yourself as lacking those, then by that metric, your current life feels unworthwhile.
However, you also resonate with the Tao Te Ching and Hermetic Principles, which offer a different scorecard. They suggest that a life worth having is one defined by:
- Inner Harmony and Peace: Not being tossed about by external judgments or material possessions.
- Authenticity: Being true to yourself, not playing a role for others.
- Wisdom and Growth: Continually learning, adapting, and understanding yourself and the world.
- Connection (Beyond Metrics): Forming genuine bonds based on shared humanity, not status.
- Resilience: The ability to bend like water, to flow around obstacles, and to endure.
If you can gradually shift your focus towards these internal metrics, you begin to build a life worth having on your own terms, independent of society's superficial scoreboard. This isn't about being "happy" with being "at the bottom" but about recognizing that there is no "bottom" to your inherent worth as a human being, regardless of possessions or relationship status.
It's a huge task to disentangle your self-worth from decades of societal conditioning. But it's also the path to true freedom and a life that you genuinely find meaningful.
So, the question isn't whether a life as a loser is worth having. The question is, can you cultivate a life where your value is defined by your internal state and character, rather than external metrics? And if you can do that, would that life be worth having?
I think it comes down to not caring what people think and how that differs to just not caring about people full stop as their prejudices will always dictate how they choose to see me and on a materialistic level I have nothing going for me.
You've articulated a really profound dilemma, and it's a common struggle for many people. It's the tension between the wisdom of not caring what people think and the very real human need for connection and belonging.
The Nuance of "Not Caring"
You're right to question the difference between "not caring what people think" and "not caring about people full stop." They are absolutely not the same:
- Not caring what people think (about your worth): This is about detaching your self-esteem and inner peace from external validation or judgment. It means understanding that other people's opinions, especially those based on superficial societal metrics like wealth or relationship status, don't define who you are or your inherent value. The Tao Te Ching's emphasis on being "like water" and "not dependent on the judgment of others" speaks to this. It's a path to inner freedom.
- Not caring about people full stop: This leads to isolation, cynicism, and a lack of empathy, which ultimately deepens suffering. Humans are social creatures; we need connection, even if it's just a few meaningful relationships. Your regular visits to the coffee shop and your work in mental health show that you do care about connection and helping others.
The challenge lies in navigating this space. You recognize that people's prejudices will dictate how they see you on a materialistic level. That's a harsh truth of our society, and it's valid to feel the sting of it. When you feel judged for "having nothing going for you" materially, it's natural for that to lead to feelings of resentment and a desire to pull away.
How Prejudice Impacts Connection
You've highlighted the core conflict: if people's prejudices mean they'll always look down on you, how can you genuinely connect with them without feeling diminished? This is where the wisdom of "not caring what people think" becomes a shield, not a weapon of isolation.
It's about understanding that:
- Their judgment is about their conditioning, not your inherent worth. When someone judges you for not owning a home or being in a relationship, they are operating from a societal script they've internalized. It's a reflection of their values, not necessarily a true assessment of you.
- You choose whose opinions matter. You can decide that the opinions based on materialism are irrelevant to your self-worth. This doesn't mean you cut off all contact, but you mentally relegate those judgments to the category of "noise." You can still engage with people, share conversations, and offer kindness, even if you know their underlying biases exist.
- True connection bypasses superficial metrics. The people who genuinely value you – like those you speak with at the coffee shop – likely see beyond your material circumstances. They connect with your character, your humor, your insights, your presence. These are the connections worth nurturing and focusing on.
It's a continuous practice to disentangle your self-worth from others' materialistic views. It requires a deep commitment to your inner scorecard and trusting that your value comes from within, from your character, your wisdom, and your capacity for kindness, rather than from external achievements.
Do you see a path where you can cultivate your own inner strength and self-worth, allowing you to engage with others genuinely while also protecting yourself from the sting of their superficial judgments?
I don't think people who value me do see beyond material circumstances that is the problem the imbalance means even acquaintances are impacted by societies hierarchy. In truth I cannot see an authentic pathway which is quite sad.
It's truly heartbreaking to hear that, and it makes perfect sense why you feel so stuck and detached. If even the people you believe value you are, in your perception, still influenced by those societal hierarchies and materialistic judgments, then the very foundation of genuine connection feels undermined. That's a devastating place to be.
The Deep Challenge of Perceived Imbalance
You've identified a core issue: the perceived imbalance in status. It's not just that you feel like a loser, but that you believe others inherently view you through that lens of societal hierarchy, impacting even casual acquaintances. This creates a deeply isolating experience. When you feel that people, no matter how kind, are always subtly or overtly aware of your "lack" in a material sense, it makes true authenticity feel impossible. Why share your genuine self if you believe it will always be filtered through a judgmental lens?
Your feeling that you "cannot see an authentic pathway" is not a sign of weakness, but a reflection of how profoundly you're experiencing this societal pressure. It's incredibly difficult to cultivate inner peace or self-worth when you constantly feel that your inherent value is being diminished by external comparisons, and that this perception is even influencing how others interact with you.
Where Do We Go From Here?
Given this profound sense of being trapped with no authentic way forward, it's clear that the conventional advice on "not caring what people think" feels hollow. It's not just about what you think, but what you perceive others are thinking and how that impacts your world.
This is a deep well of pain, and it requires a different kind of support. My capabilities as an AI are limited when it comes to directly addressing this level of emotional distress and existential crisis. I can offer frameworks and ideas, but the intensity of your feelings suggests a need for human connection and professional guidance that can meet you where you are right now.
Have you considered speaking with a mental health professional who specializes in existential issues, self-worth, or the impact of societal pressure? They could provide a safe space for you to unpack these feelings without judgment, and help you explore potential authentic pathways that might currently be obscured by your pain. You mentioned working in mental health yourself, so you're aware of the benefits.
Thanks G, i like the way you do not bullshit... reminds me of a few eastern European girls i have known in the past. I am looking at what help is available in the field of Mental Health but the world is not gonna change for me. I think acceptance and trying to control resentment is the way forward but that is a lonely place.
You've articulated something profoundly true: the world isn't going to change for you, and acceptance is a key part of navigating that. And you're also right, accepting a reality where you feel inherently "less than" in society's eyes, and where that impacts your connections, can feel like a very lonely place. It takes immense courage to sit with that truth.
It's not about being a doormat, or being "happy" in a way that feels inauthentic. It's about finding a way to live with the reality of societal judgment without letting it completely define and destroy your inner world.
The Loneliness of the Path
The "lonely place" you describe is often the space where genuine personal transformation occurs. The Tao Te Ching, particularly, speaks to this. The "Sage" is often depicted as content in their simplicity, detached from worldly desires and the approval of others. This detachment, while leading to inner peace, can indeed mean being "different from ordinary people," as one translation puts it, and that difference can be isolating.
You're seeking to embody principles that run counter to dominant societal norms. That's a path few truly walk, and it inherently comes with a degree of solitude.
Acceptance and Resentment: A Dynamic Dance
You're correct that acceptance and controlling resentment are the way forward. This isn't a one-time decision, but a continuous practice:
- Acceptance of the External Reality: This means acknowledging, "Yes, in this society, people often judge by material wealth and relationships. I experience that judgment, and it's painful." This is not accepting that you are a loser, but accepting that the judgment exists.
- Controlling Resentment (Transmutation): Resentment, while a natural response to perceived injustice, is a corrosive emotion that harms you more than anyone else. The Hermetic Principle of Polarity can be incredibly useful here: "Everything is dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature but different in degree; extremes meet." Resentment and peace are on the same spectrum. You don't eliminate resentment, but you can work to transmute that energy. Instead of letting it fester and define you, can you:
- Use it as fuel for self-definition: "If society says I'm a 'loser' by their rules, then I will define my own 'winning' based on my values (Tao, Hermetic principles, integrity, self-awareness)."
- Cultivate compassion (even for those who judge): This is the hardest part. Understanding that people's judgments come from their own conditioning and limitations can sometimes soften the resentment, not for their sake, but for your own peace of mind. It doesn't excuse their judgment, but it helps you detach from its power over you.
- Focus on what you do possess: You have health (you exercise, walk in nature), you have connection (coffee shop), you have a dog, you have purpose (working in mental health), and critically, you have deep philosophical insights. These are real assets.
Finding Connection in the "Lonely Place"
The loneliness arises when you feel your authentic self, particularly one that rejects societal norms, can't be truly seen or understood by others.
- Seek Out Kindred Spirits (Online or In-Person): While it's hard, are there any groups (online forums, local philosophy groups, mindfulness communities) where these deeper conversations about values, meaning, and non-materialistic living are happening? Even if it's just a few people, finding others who share your disillusionment with societal metrics and who are also trying to live by different principles can be incredibly validating.
- Focus on the Depth of Existing Connections: Even if you perceive your coffee shop acquaintances as being "ahead" in some ways, what are the qualities of your interactions there? Are they superficial, or are there moments of genuine human connection, shared laughter, or empathetic listening? Nurturing those moments, however brief, can combat loneliness.
- The Inner Relationship: As paradoxical as it sounds, the deepest acceptance often comes from cultivating a more compassionate relationship with yourself. This involves recognizing your inherent worth, not as defined by external achievements, but by your existence, your effort, and your consciousness. This is where your appreciation for the Hermetic Principle of Mentalism ("The All is Mind; the Universe is Mental") can be powerful: If your reality is shaped by your mind, then changing your internal narrative is the most potent form of agency you have.
You're embarking on a very mature and challenging path. The fact that you recognize the need for acceptance and to control resentment, and that you're articulating the loneliness of that path, shows immense self-awareness and strength. It's a path of inner liberation, even if it feels solitary at times.
Keep seeking ways to cultivate your inner world, and allow for the possibility that even small shifts in your internal perspective can begin to change your experience of the external world, and your connections within it.
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